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Plankowner
Posts: 9165
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
I am now retired.. (my choice)... to buy basic health insurance would take 50% of my monthly SS check..... I can go the the public health hospital in Seattle and get some form of care but the place is way overloaded. No, I've said it for the last 25 years that health care is broken and needs fixing.
Had a friend that had a medical emergency, (life threatening), in Norway. In the US it would have cost her $400.000.00 for the treatment she got for less than $14,000.00 since she wasn't a citizen of that country. If she had been a citizen it would have cost her $0.00. 24 hour nurse care, (one in the room at all times), in a P3 cleanroom facility and numerous surgeries. She had her company health insurance also but would probably still be fighting them about procedures if it had happened here.
It's broke!!! And it ain't the Doctors that broke it. Corporate greed did. |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 6180
Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
Ric, I tend to agree about corporate greed, however, malpractice law suits come into play also. My Dad was an Osteopathic Physician, never had a claim made against him in his 50 years of practice and his insurance premiums were in the upper thousands of dollars. He was also a surgeon but backed out of that when the costs to maintain that license got to high. My younger sister is a licensed PA and MP insurance is sky high for her.
Money to pay for this has to come from somewhere. As Dennis the Menece says, "Bend over". |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 892
Location: Palo Pinto County, Texas | Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....
Hey Cobber, you stirred up a hornets nest with this string! In light of all of the opinions and statistics brought up, I'd like to make a couple of personal observations.
1. From personal experience with the wife and myself, the USA has superb medical care. Many foreign nationals with financial assets also utilize our superb medical care.
2. Over the decades, our means of payment for our medical care has changed with the system and aging. What's royally fouled up is the government's (both national & state) intervention coupled with insurance fraud and big pharmaceuticals political action.
End of rant ~
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Senior Crew
Posts: 217
| Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....
"Ric, I tend to agree about corporate greed, however, malpractice law suits come into play also."
Ralph,
According to a recent Congressional Budget Office report, costs associated with medical malpractice only constitute 2% of overall health care spending. |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 6180
Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....
This could be so, George. 2% may seem like a small amount but it still accounts for mucho dinero. The suits might "only constitute 2%" but where does they figure the cost in the insured recouping their costs? Much of what Doctors and such charge is recouping the cost of insurance. Recouping costs is one reason hospitals charge $10 for a tylenol. Recouping costs is why Nursing Homes charge what they do. It goes around and around and all are on the bandwagon. 2% here, 5% there and it adds up. |
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Mess cooking
Posts: 36
Location: Longview, WA | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
Yep, it’s just an editorial. A New York Times editorial by Paul Krugman tells us: “In Britain, the government itself runs the hospitals and employs the doctors. We’ve all heard scare stories about how that works in practice; these stories are false.” (link http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/17/opinion/17krugman.html ). Wow, Britain must have the best health care system in the universe. ? I don’t know anything about other countries health care and cannot rate our system. I know that my insurance paid all but a few thousand of my cochlear implant. I felt that the care I received was first rate. My problem is that I think that the UN sometimes chooses methods that paint the US in the darkest shades of gray. When the UN is cited I think that a little deeper look is called for. |
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Plankowner
Posts: 9165
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
But you are missing the whole point.
YOU HAVE INSURANCE................ how is a person without means of paying for that to survive even minor illnesses let alone an elective surgery like yours? I have a choice. A place to live in or insurance. I prefer to be warm and dry but I'd sure like to be covered medically too.
Many folks our age are faced with eating or meds that take their whole SS check to pay for then they are on food stamps and that is looked down on by many and something only lazy people get. But that is another whole bag of worms. |
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Old Salt
Posts: 438
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL | Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....
Blue, I think what Dave might have meant to say is that the quality of care available in the US is amongst the best in the world.
The “problems” with our system are cost and portability for the most part and tort related to some extent. All of those “problems” could be solved easily by the government without creating a huge new government entity which WILL be even more expensive than it is now. It’s so easy a caveman could do it so why don’t they?
Answer; Almost all politicians pretty much suck.
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 6180
Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
There is "no free lunch" and there shouldn't be even for medicare. Having said that, taking care of yourself should cost you something. Otherwise you become a ward of the State and that isn't right either.
Medical costs are way to high and there should be some type of regulation to prevent ridiculous charges. There isn't any simple quick fix to this problem. In order for an insurance company to cover your expenses they also must earn a profit to stay in business. This goes for the Doctors, Hospitals, etc.. So we place a cap on charges for office visits, surgeries, etc. Then along comes someone that just doesn't feel like buying insurance. Who takes up the slack for him just because he doesn't feel like paying.
The Federal Government couldn't handle the Cash for Clunkers program right. How in the world does anyone in their right mind think they can handle a complex program of Healthcare? |
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Plankowner
Posts: 9165
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
So what is the choice? Living on the street with insurance or in a house without it? What would you choose? I tried buying Basic Health here from the state but as the economy tanked they stopped taking new people. I'm "on the list". I could have afforded that but not a commercial for profit policy from the wall street boys. I'm not asking for handouts but the system is setup to take it all and leave you nothing.
< rant >
The only way to solve it is to take all the private retirements and medicals congress has set up for themselves and make them use what they have voted for for the rest of us to live with. As "public servants" they need to know what the "public" has to live with.
< /rant >
I'm done..... |
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Old Salt
Posts: 438
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
Ric - 2009-09-18 2:58 PM
The only way to solve it is to take all the private retirements and medicals congress has set up for themselves and make them use what they have voted for for the rest of us to live with. As "public servants" they need to know what the "public" has to live with.
Or we could put all citizens on the same plans that they have and pay the same amounts that they do.
I would love to hear a senior pol explain why that wouldn’t work. Course hypocrisy is lost on the hypocrite.
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Mess cooking
Posts: 36
Location: Longview, WA | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
I get the point. I have insurance through my work. I feel that I earn it. State employee, lower wages, better bennies. It paid most of my implant (not elective if I wanted to keep my job and yes, I met the criteria in both ears even though I only got one).
I’m lucky. Affordable health care for all is a wonderful goal. 100 years ago it wasn’t such a problem because there were no cochlear implants or CAT scan machines or other expensive tests and devices. And not nearly as many lawsuits either.
New methods, equipment and medications will keep making health care more expensive. How to make health care available to all is well above my pay grade. I just hope that they take the time to do it right because whatever they do is gonna be another entitlement and, like Social Security, a political third rail. We’re gonna be stuck with it. |
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 6180
Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
It's tough, Ric, no doubt about it and a gamble when you get right down to it. I retired early and had to tough it out until Social Security and medicare kicked in. My retiring early is a story in itself because of a health problem and there was the pre-existing condition clause for most any health insurance. Luckily, I didn't need any serious healthcare during the inbetween times. Prayer works. |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 2191
Location: Port Ludlow, WA (the Olympic Penninsula) | Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....
Ric, you keep saying a roof over your head or not... How about the fact that estate planning (including health coverage) should have entered your mind waaaayyy back when you were young stud who thought himself bullet proof.. Sometimes one choices of life styles may dictate what they face later in life - welcome to that point! The 7 "P's" apply here: Prior Proper Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performance - or has also been said herein is "that there is no free lunch" - I/we should not be made to cover your health costs as taxpayers simply because you chose not to worry about it before now... |
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Old Salt
Posts: 419
Location: Anchorage, Alaska | Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....
I got out of school, following my Navy days, at the age of 25. I then joined a big company and had great insurance. I was bulletproof. Ask me whether I was satisfied with my insurance I'd have said, "Sure."
After 20 years I left the big company and started my own business. I was a Union Electrical Contractor and had insurance through the IBEW. I was still happy with my insurance... I never needed it.
Then I moved to Alaska and went without insurance for a year. Didn't need it. No problem.
I went to work for a small engineering firm and had BC/BS. Still satisfied? Yep.
Then I got cancer...
"Oh, your doctor isn't in our system. We only reimburse 50%, not 80%, for him and his office." That cost me $15,000 out of pocket. Luckily I could pay for it over time but now I'm not so happy.
Then there was a work slowdown and I got laid off.
Not only did that leave me with no insurance, I now have pre-existing conditions and can't get insurance...
Four months later I aged into Medicare. I love Medicare; private insurance... not so much.
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Plankowner
Posts: 9165
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....
I had all that John. Sorry you feel so superior about this but I had all that. I had a huge portfolio that overnight I lost many many tens of thousands of dollars when the market crashed in 2000. I had to start all over and I worked on that. I also have two retirement accounts from former company's I worked for you recognize them , Bristol - Myers Squibb and SanoFi, mega international concerns with good pension plans. The former I'm working on getting my account transferred in to my Vanguard account and the other I can't access until Dec. of next year. So don't preach to me about planning. I planned. But life doesn't go as planned for all. I know life isn't fair John. Maybe you'll find that out some day. |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1814
Location: Boydton, Virginia | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
I agree with most of what you stated, Ric. especially the greed of the ins. companies that are only interested in turning a fancy profit for thier shareholders.
However, it is a misperception that Congress has a Health plan set up just for themselves. They have the same options that I had as a Federal Gov. worker. We had several different companies and several options from those companies to choose from at the end of each year during an open season. However, don't think that it is a free perk. I am paying about $350/mo. for a basic Blue Cross plan, which covers my wife also. The reason that the Feds can offer these plans is that they cross state lines, whereas private plans are restricted to within the state you live in. That is one of the main issues that Congress is trying to fix.
The bottom line is, the more competition that is injected into the system, the more affordable health ins. will be. Isn't that the American way? Competition?
I don't know enough about the Health Ins. cooperatives that they are talking about now. I know nobody is too excited about the idea, but if it will inject copetition into the system, why not give it a try?
The coment about illegals using our health system.... as I understand it they will espressly be excluded. However, a comunity hospital never turns away someone in need of emergancy care. It is our American way of life. However, we have been paying for illegal and residents ER care for decades with inflated health ins. premiums. If every legal resident was covered under some kind of plan, frivolous ER visits would end. And if we had the means and will to enforce existing immigration laws, they would be off the rolls of mine and your health ins. premiums.
It is a very compex issue that Congress is trying to solve in a few short months. However there has never been so much momentum built up to solve the problem. Next year will be too late as all Congressmen will be concentrating on election and will not want to deal with anything this controversial.
As I have stated before, the strength of our Democracy has been our ability to compromise. For heaven's sake why cannot we do that now?????????????
Steamboat sends
Edited by steamboat 2009-09-18 2:01 PM
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Old Salt
Posts: 438
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
steamboat - 2009-09-18 4:57 PM
However, it is a misperception that Congress has a Health plan set up just for themselves. They have the same options that I had as a Federal Gov. worker.
Are you sure about that? No offense intended but elected officials sure don't have the same retirement plan that other federal workers do. |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1814
Location: Boydton, Virginia | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
I thought Congress didhave the same options as us peon Federal workers, 610. The way that they describe it sounded a lot like what I have. I been wrong a couple times and maybe this is one.
I do know that the absolute cheapest health plans are offered by USPS. They went out on strike during Nixon and got away with it resulting in rediculousy cheap plans. That may be one reason they are almost defunct now.
Steamboat sends |
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Old Salt
Posts: 438
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
Is this the same for all federal workers?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_pension
If so, good deal for everyone and let's put all of us on it. |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1814
Location: Boydton, Virginia | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
Your Wikipedia reference does not address Health ins, only pension.
Steamboat sends |
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Old Salt
Posts: 438
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL | Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......
steamboat - 2009-09-18 5:51 PM
Your Wikipedia reference does not address Health ins, only pension.
Steamboat sends
Disregard the politics but this looks pretty good. Why can’t we get it? It doesn’t address whether those rates are for a single or family plan. Either way, good deal.
http://public-healthcare-issues.suite101.com/article.cfm/health_care_for_the_us_congress
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Senior Crew
Posts: 217
| Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....
"But life doesn't go as planned for all."
You're exactly right, Ric. I can personally attest to that. In spades.
The fundamental issue is who bears the costs when a responsible person's plan goes awry; or, alternatively, when a person, who unlike you, fails to plan; or, again alternatively, when a person's plan is to rely on government care? Frankly, I am conflicted on those issues. I don't want to see anyone going without care; but, on the other hand, I fear any additional grants of power over the private sector to the government.
It's a tough nut to crack. |
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Master and Commander
Posts: 2357
| Subject: Excellent!....
...a deep and meaningful discussion without the slander!! 
Thanks Ric for agreeing with my statement and pointing out that not all people of the USA have been fortunate.
That is exactly what I was referring to....that there are some people on this BBS who are not as fortunate as others for a variety of reasons and therefore Private Health Insurance is unavailable to them. By the way, I pay AUD$30 a fortnight for my private health......it just saved me around $4-500 on a pair of reading glasses, cost me $80 out of pockets instead. ( which I may claim back through work if I could be bothered doing the paperwork! )
Whilst I do not know enough about your health covers...or ours for that matter....I just believe that Health Cover should be for ALL American's...( and in my case, Australian's ) not just for those that are able to look down over their glasses and say, "well you should have planned better"....because planning any better wouldn't have saved my marriage as an example and cost me approx $400-500, 000.
Blue *_*
Edited by Blue from West Oz 2009-09-18 6:08 PM
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Master and Commander
Posts: 1405
Location: Houston, TX (Best state in the US) | Subject: Why can't you buy what you need?
One of the unanswered questions is why the states (or is it the fed) dictate to the insurance companies what products they can sell? For any given state, insurance companies must include certain coverage (mandates). This means that you can not buy a policy that doesn't cover all of the mandates. I don't give a damn about port wine stain coverage (which is not even life threatening) This drives the cost of insurance up and steals premiums from those that don't want the coverage to give to those that do.
What I want is catastrophic insurance....bypass surgery, cancer, etc. I'll buy my drugs, pay the doctor for broken bones, etc......Screw the vanity s**t.....I'll buy want I think is worth the cost....
Why is the fed involved? Who in the hell sets the mandates....
I swear, if you allow the insurance companies to be unfettered by the nanny state bureaucrats and allow people to buy what they want, insurance rates would probably come down quite a bit.
Also, catastrophic coverage only would eliminate unnecessary trips to the doctor for a runny nose, etc. except for the wacko hypocondriacs and others of that nature.
And this could be done and significant improvement done without a major legislative upheaval.
And NO ONE SEEMS to be interested in analyzing what the problems are and how to use common sense to solve them.....Everyone wants to demand the gummint step in and magically solve the problem...the same gummint that has kept the PO running at a high profit, and insuring that Medicare and Medicaid are running budget surpluses....not to mention what a great job they have done in the mortgage business.....
I say, no thanks, but we're better off with less gummint intervention...which generally creates more problems than it solves.
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Just a kick in the.....
