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At random: The USS NAUTILUS SSN 571 steamed 60,000 miles on a lump of Uranium the size of a golf ball. A diesel powered submarine would have required 3,000,000 gallons or 300 railway tank cars of oil.
Just a kick in the.....
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cobber
Posted 2009-09-17 12:35 PM (#30842)


Mess cooking

Posts: 49

Location: Port Orange, Florida
Subject: Just a kick in the.....

Today I took my wife for her medical appointment at our family doctor...I told him that we both had our flu shot for this year, but not the swine shot and asked him if we could get it...He told me that since we both are over 65, Obama says that we are not eligible for the shot, due to our age...I spent 32 years active duty, mostly on the boats, now I'm being told by our Commander-in-Chief that I don't qualify...Somehow, it just don't seem fair...

cobber
crystal
Posted 2009-09-17 12:46 PM (#30843 - in reply to #30842)


Master and Commander

Posts: 2191

Location: Port Ludlow, WA (the Olympic Penninsula)
Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

John, it obviously has nothing to do with your Navy career only the fact that you are NOT in one of the high risk categories for contracting swine flu!  Would you rather get the shot and find that there are not enough available to safeguard that 6 year old down the block? 
Ralph Luther
Posted 2009-09-17 2:14 PM (#30850 - in reply to #30842)
COMSUBBBS

Posts: 6180

Location: Summerville, SC
Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

Cobber, this is just the beginning.
You'd think that the drug companies would realize the need. Their R&D departments are sucking up dollars by the truck load and they don't have sense enough to look down the road to see the demand.
RCK
Posted 2009-09-17 2:36 PM (#30851 - in reply to #30842)
Master and Commander

Posts: 1431

Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

It is called age discrimination. I would like to know who is making the decisions as to who is too old to be protected from infectious diseases. What do you want to bet that the rules that are being set up do not apply to the House and Senate representatives, big donaters to the political parties, and family members of the rulling elite. Anyone want to march on Washington?
Corabelle
Posted 2009-09-17 3:50 PM (#30853 - in reply to #30851)


COMSUBBBS

Posts: 2561

Location: Rapid City, SD
Subject: Count me in for the march!

FINALLY...THE $64,000 QUESTION WAS ASKED...

Yesterday (news article dated 09/05/09) on 'ABC' (Better known as the All Barack Channel) during the 'Network Special on Health Care'...Obama was asked: Mr. President will you and your family give up your current health care program and join the new 'Universal Health Care Program' that the rest of us will be on????

There was a stoney silence as Obama ignored the question and chose not to answer it!!!

In addition, a number of senators were asked the same question and their response was..."We will think about it."

With this article, a picture of a well-known newsman talking to our president was included, but I can't remember his name.

As far as the swine flu shot. I thought the 'elderly' are in the high-risk class, and elegible for the shot.

Cora

Edited by Corabelle 2009-09-17 4:38 PM
Park Dallis
Posted 2009-09-17 4:00 PM (#30854 - in reply to #30842)


Old Salt

Posts: 419

Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

Actually, H1N1 has proven to be much more hazardous to the young than the old.

It seems that persons born before 1957 have a certain amount of immunity to the virus, probably as a result of exposure to some genetic relative of the current H1N1 in the past.

You should rely on the advice of your doctor as to whether or not you should get this immunization.  He/she knows you, knows your state of immune health, and knows the amount of risk you face from the H1N1.
cobber
Posted 2009-09-17 4:09 PM (#30856 - in reply to #30842)


Mess cooking

Posts: 49

Location: Port Orange, Florida
Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

I wouldn't want to deprive a youngster from getting the shot...I was going by what Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius told Congress....Eventually, "we will have enough vaccine available for everyone"...Having open heart surgery 6 bypasses, COPD and asbestos in my lungs, I believed I was in the at-high risk grouping...Anyway, I can wait...

cobber
RCK
Posted 2009-09-17 4:59 PM (#30859 - in reply to #30842)
Master and Commander

Posts: 1431

Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

Sorry to heart that the elderly are at more risk. The elderly are at risk for swine flu. Secondly there is no way of ascertaining the risk factor for individuals based on age. An individuals risk for dying depends on their overall health and less than their age. Many that are forced into the "elderly" catagory are in good health,sometimes better than the younger generation. This talk of excluding people from the vaccine based on age is pure bull.
Stoops
Posted 2009-09-17 5:21 PM (#30860 - in reply to #30842)
Master and Commander

Posts: 1405

Location: Houston, TX (Best state in the US)
Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

Well, I can't think I can put any confidence in the federal officials mentioned above. They have no credentials in the medical field.....matter of fact, I'd really ask if they have any credentials at all......


Stoops
Posted 2009-09-17 5:22 PM (#30861 - in reply to #30859)
Master and Commander

Posts: 1405

Location: Houston, TX (Best state in the US)
Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

RCK - 2009-09-17 4:59 PM

Sorry to heart that the elderly are at more risk. The elderly are at risk for swine flu. Secondly there is no way of ascertaining the risk factor for individuals based on age. An individuals risk for dying depends on their overall health and less than their age. Many that are forced into the "elderly" catagory are in good health,sometimes better than the younger generation. This talk of excluding people from the vaccine based on age is pure bull.



What am I missing here? I thought I just read the young were more at risk than the old? Clear seems to think so too.

Who is right?

Park Dallis
Posted 2009-09-17 5:29 PM (#30862 - in reply to #30861)


Old Salt

Posts: 419

Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

Stoops - 2009-09-17 4:22 PM
Who is right?


Me and the Chief.
RCK
Posted 2009-09-17 5:38 PM (#30864 - in reply to #30861)
Master and Commander

Posts: 1431

Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

Here is what the CDC is aying regarding the elderly and the Swine flu

However, officials are expressing caution, as data is still being finalized, and "can't say" about the exact nature or degree of any extra protection enjoyed by the elderly, said Anne Schuchat of the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Until then, the CDC is advising older people to exercise the same preventative measures as everyone else.

Blue from West Oz
Posted 2009-09-17 5:42 PM (#30867 - in reply to #30861)


Master and Commander

Posts: 2357

Subject: My Understanding Is....

Stoops - 2009-09-18 7:22 AM

What am I missing here? I thought I just read the young were more at risk than the old? Clear seems to think so too.

Who is right?



....that it is the younger generation that are most at risk.

My Dad ( age 66 ) laughed when he told me, "It's about time you young bastards were sorted out".....he meant that in a funny way in case anyone is offended!

Also I believe it is the infirm that are at risk also...I was kind of hoping the scum in my unit that are AIDS ridden would fall of the perch when a few guys were suspected of having the swine flu, but damn it, they all survived. ( Not very nice of me I know, but considering their crimes, well.... )

Blue *_*
Skii
Posted 2009-09-17 5:49 PM (#30868 - in reply to #30842)


Great Sage of the Sea

Posts: 597

Location: Tucson, Arizona
Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

I read something about the extinction of the weak and feeble in another country - this could be just the start of weeding out those elderly by a legitimate excuse called swine flu.
With all of our wealth and medical technology I cannot we can not produce enough vaccine to eradicate this nasty problem. I wonder how many Viagra, Cialis and Levitra pills are made a month? Then again I wonder how many injections are being sent to the Congress and White House? It is just another mismanagement going on in Washington.

Veteran's are not on top of the White House take care of list - Maybe they will let Acorn handle the distribution of the H1N1 program.

Enjoy what you voted for

Ski
Stoops
Posted 2009-09-17 5:50 PM (#30869 - in reply to #30867)
Master and Commander

Posts: 1405

Location: Houston, TX (Best state in the US)
Subject: RE: My Understanding Is....

Blue from West Oz - 2009-09-17 5:42 PM


Also I believe it is the infirm that are at risk also...I was kind of hoping the scum in my unit that are AIDS ridden would fall of the perch when a few guys were suspected of having the swine flu, but damn it, they all survived. ( Not very nice of me I know, but considering their crimes, well.... )

Blue *_*


Blue,
I think that our gummint is counting on denying healthcare to the elderly to enable them to provide healthcare to the "chosen".

I can not offer more than that without becoming political, but the proposed healthcare "reforms" will do nothing but pit rich against poor, black against white, and destroy competition and therefore destroy the best healtcare system in the world.
RCK
Posted 2009-09-17 6:13 PM (#30870 - in reply to #30869)
Master and Commander

Posts: 1431

Subject: RE: My Understanding Is....

The problem with vaccines is it takes along time to develope the stuff to begin with and it isn't a cheap process. Wearing a face mask that is
of the right design is thought to be helpful. These masks are heavier and more moldable to form a good seal on your face. The vaccine is the
best protection but the administration is not a friend of the elderly when it comes to this issue. They want to give the available vaccine to the
youths. I believe they have certain motives that I won't discuss here. There are risks associated with all vaccines and should be discussed
with your doc, but I won't blindly accept what we are being told . Some folks are being denied the vaccine base on age and I am opposed to
this strategy.
Blue from West Oz
Posted 2009-09-17 6:43 PM (#30871 - in reply to #30869)


Master and Commander

Posts: 2357

Subject: Your Healthcare System....

Stoops - 2009-09-18 7:50 AM


I can not offer more than that without becoming political, but the proposed healthcare "reforms" will do nothing but pit rich against poor, black against white, and destroy competition and therefore destroy the best healtcare system in the world.


Stoops, Don allows political as long as no one gets nasty and personal about it.

With that in mind, how can you say you have the best health system in the world when as an example, a widowed mother of two pays US$1,500 a month of private health, and my ex wife ( with my 2 kids and same ages as Kathy ) pays AUD$150 for the same cover? ( that would equate to AUD$2,000 by the way )

Looking at the figures, I cant believe you have the 'best healthcare system in the world'....and no, I am not saying we have, just cant work out how you came to your point.

Are you saying your healthcare system needs no ammendments at all?

What becomes of the poor/less well off in your society when they become sick?

I know of one person on this BBS who is struggling to meet his daily commitments and is sick and therefore unable to get the correct medical coverage he requires. Is that how to treat your fellow citizens?

Not everyone is lucky enough to have made the right decisions in life, or through divorce, become poorer. It's taken me a few years to get back on my feet, but I was 'lucky' as she did want to screw me well into the ground and I would have had nothing at all.

Healthcare isn't just for the well off in society, it should be for all!

Blue *_*
Stoops
Posted 2009-09-17 7:12 PM (#30872 - in reply to #30871)
Master and Commander

Posts: 1405

Location: Houston, TX (Best state in the US)
Subject: RE: Your Healthcare System....

Blue from West Oz - 2009-09-17 6:43 PM





Stoops, Don allows political as long as no one gets nasty and personal about it.

With that in mind, how can you say you have the best health system in the world when as an example, a widowed mother of two pays US$1,500 a month of private health, and my ex wife ( with my 2 kids and same ages as Kathy ) pays AUD$150 for the same cover? ( that would equate to AUD$2,000 by the way )


Because I am not confused about the "best health care in the world" and the cost of it. We do have the best healthcare in the entire world. How could you doubt it? I think Mikey may protest, but any rational person can't.

The issue which our idiot politicians cannot grasp is a reasonable private solution.....Our congress is full of idiot nannies....and most of them should be taken out in a field and shot for either gross stupidity or treason...it makes no difference to me...



The health insurance issue would go away if the feds would get the flock out of the way and the states would quit demanding mandates.. Let everyone look at policies they want to buy...not what some stupid flock idiot in DC demands that we have to have as a choice................



The "healthcare crisis" is not a crisis at all....it is a crisis in American ignorance and a lack of critical thinking skills which have not been taught for years in our schools which have led to...................whoops...this is Don's board..............





Looking at the figures, I cant believe you have the 'best healthcare system in the world'....and no, I am not saying we have, just cant work out how you came to your point.

Are you saying your healthcare system needs no ammendments at all?

What becomes of the poor/less well off in your society when they become sick?

I know of one person on this BBS who is struggling to meet his daily commitments and is sick and therefore unable to get the correct medical coverage he requires. Is that how to treat your fellow citizens?

Not everyone is lucky enough to have made the right decisions in life, or through divorce, become poorer. It's taken me a few years to get back on my feet, but I was 'lucky' as she did want to screw me well into the ground and I would have had nothing at all.

Healthcare isn't just for the well off in society, it should be for all!

Blue *_*
GaryKC
Posted 2009-09-17 7:42 PM (#30876 - in reply to #30842)


COMSUBBBS

Posts: 3672

Location: Kansas City Missouri
Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

John, your doctor may want to read this, seems the CDC has plans...imagine that.

2009 H1N1 Vaccination Recommendations

With the new H1N1 virus continuing to cause illness, hospitalizations and deaths in the US during the normally flu-free summer months and some uncertainty about what the upcoming flu season might bring, CDC's Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices has taken an important step in preparations for a voluntary 2009 H1N1 vaccination effort to counter a possibly severe upcoming flu season. On July 29, ACIP met to consider who should receive 2009 H1N1 vaccine when it becomes available.

2009 H1N1 Vaccine

Every flu season has the potential to cause a lot of illness, doctor’s visits, hospitalizations and deaths.  CDC is concerned that the new H1N1 flu virus could result in a particularly severe 2009-2010 flu season.  Vaccines are the best tool we have to prevent influenza.  CDC hopes that people will start to go out and get vaccinated against seasonal influenza as soon as vaccines become available at their doctor’s offices and in their communities (this may be as early as August for some).  The seasonal flu vaccine is unlikely to provide protection against 2009 H1N1 influenza.  However a 2009 H1N1 vaccine is currently in production and may be ready for the public in the fall. The 2009 H1N1 vaccine is not intended to replace the seasonal flu vaccine – it is intended to be used along-side seasonal flu vaccine. 

CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), a panel made up of medical and public health experts, met July 29, 2009, to make recommendations on who should receive the new H1N1 vaccine when it becomes available.  While some issues are still unknown, such as how severe the flu season, the ACIP considered several factors, including current disease patterns, populations most at-risk for severe illness based on current trends in illness, hospitalizations and deaths, how much vaccine is expected to be available, and the timing of vaccine availability.

The groups recommended to receive the 2009 H1N1 influenza vaccine include:

  • Pregnant women because they are at higher risk of complications and can potentially provide protection to infants who cannot be vaccinated;
  • Household contacts and caregivers for children younger than 6 months of age because younger infants are at higher risk of influenza-related complications and cannot be vaccinated. Vaccination of those in close contact with infants younger than 6 months old might help protect infants by “cocooning” them from the virus;
  • Healthcare and emergency medical services personnel because infections among healthcare workers have been reported and this can be a potential source of infection for vulnerable patients. Also, increased absenteeism in this population could reduce healthcare system capacity;
  • All people from 6 months through 24 years of age
    • Children from 6 months through 18 years of age because cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in children who are in close contact with each other in school and day care settings, which increases the likelihood of disease spread, and
    • Young adults 19 through 24 years of age because many cases of 2009 H1N1 influenza have been seen in these healthy young adults and they often live, work, and study in close proximity, and they are a frequently mobile population; and,
  • Persons aged 25 through 64 years who have health conditions associated with higher risk of medical complications from influenza.

No shortage of 2009 H1N1 vaccine is expected, but vaccine availability and demand can be unpredictable and there is some possibility that initially, the vaccine will be available in limited quantities.  So, the ACIP also made recommendations regarding which people within the groups listed above should be prioritized if the vaccine is initially available in extremely limited quantities. For more information see the CDC press release CDC Advisors Make Recommendations for Use of Vaccine Against 2009 H1N1.  

Once the demand for vaccine for the prioritized groups has been met at the local level, programs and providers should also begin vaccinating everyone from the ages of 25 through 64 years. Current studies indicate that the risk for infection among persons age 65 or older is less than the risk for younger age groups. However, once vaccine demand among younger age groups has been met, programs and providers should offer vaccination to people 65 or older. 

Blue from West Oz
Posted 2009-09-17 8:42 PM (#30877 - in reply to #30872)


Master and Commander

Posts: 2357

Subject: W.H.O Standards, 2000......

Stoops - 2009-09-18 9:12 AM


Because I am not confused about the "best health care in the world" and the cost of it. We do have the best healthcare in the entire world. How could you doubt it? I think Mikey may protest, but any rational person can't.



How can I doubt it? for those same reasons I mentioned.

The health of the nation is not just about the health of the 'chosen ones'.

When a poor man can get medical treatment for cancer that a rich man can, then I will say you have the best system in the world.

Not all poor people are bludgers on society, some of them are damn hard workers, fathers/mothers who for whatever reason have been placed into poverty or near.

You have a lovely home and lifestyle that you have worked extremely hard for....I have also stayed with other people in the US that are less fortunate for a multitude of reasons. To deny them the 'best healthcare in the world' is wrong, wrong, wrong.

I have read a statement that says, ' a nation can be judged by how it cares for it's prisoners'......I think that really should say, '....it's less fortunate'.

The 'world' really does consist of more countries than the USA you know?

Blue *_*

PS. Just Googled 'best healthcare system in the world'? and by the the World Health Organisation's Standards....not Stoops Standards, here is the list:



1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei
41 New Zealand
42 Bahrain
43 Croatia
44 Qatar
45 Kuwait
46 Barbados
47 Thailand
48 Czech Republic
49 Malaysia
50 Poland
51 Dominican Republic
Blue from West Oz
Posted 2009-09-17 8:47 PM (#30878 - in reply to #30877)


Master and Commander

Posts: 2357

Subject: and another interesting Table...

...but dated 1997...

http://www.photius.com/rankings/world_health_performance_ranks.html

The figures are interesting.

If anyone can find this or last year's figures that would be great.

Blue *_*
Donald L. Johnson
Posted 2009-09-17 9:04 PM (#30880 - in reply to #30868)


Great Sage of the Sea

Posts: 602

Location: Visalia, Ca.
Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

Skii - 2009-09-17 5:49 PM

With all of our wealth and medical technology I cannot we can not produce enough vaccine to eradicate this nasty problem. I wonder how many Viagra, Cialis and Levitra pills are made a month? Then again I wonder how many injections are being sent to the Congress and White House? It is just another mismanagement going on in Washington.

Ski


The problem is, the methods used are entirely different.

With Viagra, etc., and most prescription and non-prescription drugs, all they have to do is mix up the chemical components, combine with inert fillers and press into pills, or mix with saline solution to the desired strength and bottle it. Production-line work - Crank out millions of pills or vials a day.

Vaccines are usually made from the genetic material of the target virus, and have to be grown in culture for a specific length of time. If memory serves, flu virus vaccines are grown in chicken eggs, and require several months of incubation before they can be used. And for a new strain of virus, they have to actually develop the vaccine and test it before they can begin mass-production.

The common flu virus strains are well known, and don't change much from year to year, so the big Pharma companies can start production in the early Spring and have plenty of vaccine available by flu season.

With H1N1, they started developing the vaccine last Fall during the original outbreak, but it wasn't ready to test until late Spring, so it took longer to get it into production.

That is why they want the first batches to go to the most at-risk: children, and adults with weaker immune systems.




Edited by Donald L. Johnson 2009-09-17 9:08 PM
Donald L. Johnson
Posted 2009-09-17 9:19 PM (#30881 - in reply to #30854)


Great Sage of the Sea

Posts: 602

Location: Visalia, Ca.
Subject: RE: Just a kick in the.....

Park Dallis - 2009-09-17 4:00 PM

Actually, H1N1 has proven to be much more hazardous to the young than the old.

It seems that persons born before 1957 have a certain amount of immunity to the virus, probably as a result of exposure to some genetic relative of the current H1N1 in the past.

You should rely on the advice of your doctor as to whether or not you should get this immunization.  He/she knows you, knows your state of immune health, and knows the amount of risk you face from the H1N1.


That doesn't surprise me. We grew up in the time before people went ape over anti-biotics and anti-bacterial soaps. We were exposed to all the bacteria and germs in the dirt we played and worked in, and our immune systems developed responses to them.

Now-a-days, with so much use of cleansers and anti-bacterials, and people wanting anti-biotics for the common cold, kids are not exposed to the weaker germs, and so don't have the opportunity to develop immunities before they are exposed to the really strong germs that the anti-bacterial and anti-biotic cleaners DON'T kill. Think MRSA and the penicillin-resistant strains of VD that came out of Viet Nam.

That is also part of the reason so many more kids have asthma and allergies today than we did. No early exposure, no natural resistance/immune response development.


Rambo
Posted 2009-09-18 7:21 AM (#30912 - in reply to #30877)


Mess cooking

Posts: 36

Location: Longview, WA
Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......

Blue, your comment about the WHO brought to mind a recent editorial in the Wall Street Journal. They were talking about the facts about our health care system and brought up the WHO rating. The quote:

"• The World Health Organization ranks the U.S. 37th In the world in quality. This is another frightening statistic. It is also not accurate. Yet the head of the National Committee for Quality Assurance, a powerful organization influencing both the government and private insurers in defining quality of care, has stated this as fact.

The World Health Organization ranks the U.S. No. 1 among all countries in "responsiveness." Responsiveness has two components: respect for persons (including dignity, confidentiality and autonomy of individuals and families to make decisions about their own care), and client orientation (including prompt attention, access to social support networks during care, quality of basic amenities and choice of provider). This is what Americans rightly understand as quality care and worry will be lost in the upheaval of reform. Our country's composite score fell to 37 primarily because we lack universal coverage and care is a financial burden for many citizens."

It seems to me that ratings can often be just another name for opinions.

Here is the link if you are interested. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204731804574383294047706218.html

Blue from West Oz
Posted 2009-09-18 7:56 AM (#30916 - in reply to #30912)


Master and Commander

Posts: 2357

Subject: RE: W.H.O Standards, 2000......

Rambo, thanks for the link and comments.

At the end of the day it would appear that your link in 'another opinion'....just as the link I provided was just 'another opinion'.

Which opinion is correct? I have no idea.

What I take point to is when someone states that their system is 'the best in the entire world' when really they possibly have never had medical treatment in any other nation.

I have had treatment for a variety of injuries....most of them self inflicted to a degree ( lol ) in England, Australia, Singapore, USA, New Zealand, Italy Hong Kong, Australia and USA.

All have treated me with extreme professionalism...as one would hope. But I was covered by the military in all cases..except as a child in England.

I take exception to any nations healthcare system that doesn't treat a widow or a shipmate from here who is not as fortunate as others, in a less than favourable standing.

I will once again reiterate that I am NOT saying Australia has the best either.

Surely you guys don't believe that your system can do with some tweaking, small or otherwise?

US....A female with 2 kids pays USD$1,500 a month
AUS....A female with 2 kids pays USD$130(ish) a month

What's the difference?

If yours is ultimately 'THE WORLD's BEST'....then why is it so damn expensive and therefore out of the reach of so many of your citizens. Does anyobody care for them? Are you not a 'Christian' society?

Blue *_*
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