|
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1814
Location: Boydton, Virginia | Subject: Question for the Docs
I am intreged by the term "Independant Duty Corpsman". I don't remember hearing in in my Navy time (1960-64).
Just how extensive is the training and experience necessary for that qualification? How does it rank against civilian conterparts such as EMT Tech, RN, LPN, and the like? Also what sets an Independant Duty Corpsman apart from a regular Corpsman? Do many Navy independant Corpsmen continue thier profession into civilian life? What rate do you have to obtain to be a qualified Ind. Duty Corpsman? And lastly, which was more difficult quals (I know it is apples and oranges)... Ind. Duty Corpsman or Submarine dolphins? And if Doc Garner is listening, could you tell us about the special training you recieved to transfer from Subs to a FMC battlefield Independant Duty Corpsman?
I humbly solicite this information with the utmost respect for the job Ya'll did and still do for our Nation
Steamboat sends |
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 2254
Location: Foothills of the Ozarks | Subject: RE: Question for the Docs
steamboat - 2009-04-22 8:33 PM
I am intreged by the term "Independant Duty Corpsman". I don't remember hearing in in my Navy time (1960-64).
Just how extensive is the training and experience necessary for that qualification? How does it rank against civilian conterparts such as EMT Tech, RN, LPN, and the like? Also what sets an Independant Duty Corpsman apart from a regular Corpsman? Do many Navy independant Corpsmen continue thier profession into civilian life? What rate do you have to obtain to be a qualified Ind. Duty Corpsman? And lastly, which was more difficult quals (I know it is apples and oranges)... Ind. Duty Corpsman or Submarine dolphins? And if Doc Garner is listening, could you tell us about the special training you recieved to transfer from Subs to a FMC battlefield Independant Duty Corpsman?
I humbly solicite this information with the utmost respect for the job Ya'll did and still do for our Nation
Steamboat sends
I'll try to answer in the order you asked the questions.
Initial training for HM's is the HM "A" School at Great Lakes (I went there) or San Diego. When I went it was a 12 week school that qualified you to work on a Hospital Ward or aboard ship in a Sick Bay under the leadership of Doctor, Nurses and senior HM's. I'd guess the training would qualify you to be around what an LPN would be trained to do i.e. give shots, change dressings, provide basic care in a hospital, handle routine things at sick call etc.
To become an independent duty corpsman aboard submarines (i.e. able to go to sea for extended periods of time without any other medical personnel, doctors, etc)required another 26 weeks of training in medical diagnostics, treatment of the types of illnesses/injuries you're most likely to run into (cuts, burns, broken bones etc) diagnosis of any and all common diseases and their treatments plus I went to the medical version of Nuclear Power School to learn all about radiation health and how to treat radiation related illnesses. Along the way I also became a qualified X-Ray technician and was able to take the shots and read them for most routine procedures. I also learned how to set and cast broken bones, sew up minor and a few major lacerations and treat burns. Then toss in all the paperwork requirements for medical records and radiation safety and atmosphere monitoring and I think that covers it. That training would have qualified me to be what today is called an EMT; and with some additional schooling I could have become a Registered Nurse or a Physicians Assistant. (The PA program was just getting started in the early 70's and I considered it but changed my mind).
FMF Training for combat was a highly condensed (6 weeks when I went to it at Camp LeJeune, NC) course in battlefield injuries and Marine combat tactics. We spent a lot of the time in the field on "problems" and treating simulated battlefield injuries; i.e. gunshot wounds, explosive device wounds, treatment of wounds from booby traps, i.e. punji sticks (sharpened bamboo dipped in human excrement (that's s**t for the nukes)) and all kinds of stuff like that. Much of what we learned and practiced was how to keep a Marine alive until we could get him med-evac'd to a field hospital. We started I.V'S, gave them pain meds, got the bleeding stopped, splinted the broken body parts and called in a chopper to get them out of there. When we weren't busy doing that they gave us a weapon, trained us to use it and expected us to live up to the creed of "Every Marine is a Rifleman". In base camp we did all the sick bay things that other independent duty corpsman would be doing.
As for which is tougher to do (Qualify in Submarines or Qualify for Independent Medical Duty?); for me qualifying in submarines was harder; I'm not really the engineering or mechanical type so learning all the physics and mechanics of how submarines work required a lot of study, a lot of help from shipmates and lots of tracing out systems and drawing them so I could figure them out. I became very good at being able to explain how something worked; but don't ask me to fix it unless it bleeds or breathes.
Very few of the Corpsman that I stay in touch with from my time stayed in the medical field; I went into the business world, one guy I know did the Physicians Assistant route and did very well. There just wasn't the opportunity then that there is now. If I had it to do over again I think I would have gone to Nursing School and become an O.R. Nurse or maybe an Anesthetist; my wife is an RN and has always been able to find work she likes which has saved our bacon several times when I've been downsized from two of the companies I worked for.
This is longer than I intended but I hope it answers your question.
I'm sure Doc Beeghly and Doc Peterman can add something that I have missed or was different in their training.
Doc
Edited by Doc Gardner 2009-04-23 2:48 AM
|
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1892
Location: Patterson, New York | Subject: RE: Question for the Docs
In six years of service, I never met a HM I did not like; they always seemed happy in thier work and got along with all depts.
Our Docs on the Polaris boats would always be around the Launcher area passing the time in conversation.
Note for non Boomer guys, the medical shack was in the missile compartment.
Thanks Docs |
|
| |
|
Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 877
| Subject: RE: Question for the Docs
....Note for non Boomer guys, the medical shack was in the missile compartment.
Thanks Docs
That's still the case on the TRIDENT boats.. when I rode the MAINE (SSBN-741) 11 years ago, one of the things they told us on the ship's briefing was that any scrape/cut/scratch was to be reported to the medics.. who were located in the missile compartment. |
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 1269
Location: Hopewell Junction NY | Subject: RE: Question for the Docs
How unusual was it to have an HM2 on the boats?
My impression was they had to be HM1, at least. But when I left Sea Robin in 67 we had a HM2(SU) serving there.
|
|
| |
|
Senior Crew
Posts: 184
Location: ConroeTexas | Subject: RE: Question for the Docs
Just adding a little to what Doc Gardner said, Not being a NUKE and not liking to be shot at I cant comment on FMF duty, but being a peace time or cold war Submariner on the old diesel boats I can only comment on my experiences. I didnt start out as a corpsman, after boot camp I tried ET school and didnt like that so I was booted out and went to sea for a couple years on an LST and an APA as a deck ape, didnt like that either and I thought those corpsmen up in sick bay had a pretty cushy job so thru some brilliant conniving on my part I got to strike for corpsman, and got sent to Basic Hospital corps school in San Diego, after graduation I was sent to Mare Island hospital which was closing so I went to Dispensary at Mare Island for 2 years, while there I became friends with a submariner stationed there and after listening to all his sea stories I decided that was the career I wanted, but first I had to go to advanced hospital corps school for 6 months and then be accepted for submarine medical school for another 6 months. After completing all these schools I reported to the USS Growler out of Pearl harbor for two years. Then came shore duty in Corpus Christi, which I gave up early to go back to the deisel boats on the east coast, and the rest of my 22 years is history full of many memories. As you may have noticed, I had no actual hospital or operating experience, I am sure that ALL Submariners have heard the stories about some submarine corpsman who performed a successful appendectomy while submerged at sea. This story is true but some of the details are often overlooked, as I understand, he had some previous operating room experience of some kind. During my cold war career and with the development of antibiotics like pennicillin it was possible to hold even a case of appendicitis for a certain amount of time. During my submarine career I had only one case of appendicitis while on patrol and due to modern medicines it never became a life threatning emergency.
Like Gardner said Submarine corpsmen were allowed to perform what normally only a doctor can do, and a nurse, LPN or EMT can not. (like using and dispensing the Medicinal Brandy and alcohol, prescribing and administering pain killers like morphine, or any of the drugs that submarines were allowed to carry).
The beagle doc |
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 2254
Location: Foothills of the Ozarks | Subject: RE: Question for the Docs
PaulR - 2009-04-23 1:38 PM
How unusual was it to have an HM2 on the boats?
My impression was they had to be HM1, at least. But when I left Sea Robin in 67 we had a HM2(SU) serving there.
Minimum requirement was HM2. I was HM2(SS) when I reported to SSBN 600 Gold in July 1968 but had already passed the test for HM1 and was advanced in January of 1969. The fact that I was already qualified on USS Skipjack prior to going to Corps School and the Marines made my transition to the Roosevelt very easy. The only difference in my requal was learning the missile compartment and some of the changes that had been added or upgraded since I left Skipjack in 1965 |
|
| |
|
Plankowner
Posts: 9165
Location: Upper lefthand corner of the map. | Subject: RE: Question for the Docs
docbeeghly - 2009-04-23 11:07 AM
...Like Gardner said Submarine corpsmen were allowed to perform what normally only a doctor can do, and a nurse, LPN or EMT can not. (like using and dispensing the Medicinal Brandy and alcohol, prescribing and administering pain killers like morphine, or any of the drugs that submarines were allowed to carry).
The beagle doc
I held a battle lantern for our corpman and watched while he stitched up a guys ass, he almost tore himself a new assh**e falling through an open hatch. He commented he hadn't sutured anyone since Korea and was a bit rusty. |
|
| |
|
Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 566
Location: Inyokern, Ca. | Subject: RE: Question for the Docs
Our Corpsman (Daring Doc Dalzell) Was FMF first, then went Submarines. I had two episodes where I had to see the Doctor on the Tender for gross hemoturia. They misdiagnosed it both times, once as hepatitis and once as prostatitis.
The third time we were at sea, I was med-evac'd via whaler, DD, and helo and eventually ended up in Balboa. Doc was fed up with the mis-diagnosis and went to work with his desk references and microscope. He diagnosed it as IGA nephropathy and wrote it in his notes.
After weeks in the hospital and a biopsy the MD says "it's this fairly rare disease called Berger's or IGA nephropathy." I said "Oh yea, that's what my corpsman said in his diagnosis on the boat." The Doctor didn't believe me but went back and read the notes. I believe Doc Dalzell got some kind of recognition - letter of Com, or something for that one. He deserved it and more.
Of course I could then tell the story of how he learned about the lack of effect Lidocaine has on infected tissue after he removed my toenail, all the while I was telling him I could still feel it...  But then he owed me for that one.
BB
Edited by BlackBeard 2009-04-23 7:17 PM
|
|
| |
|
COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2672
Location: New Jersey | Subject: RE: Question for the Docs
Good question John...
Doc, how long were you in the Navy to have gone through all that training? Seems like you were in school near 2 years.
We had an HM1 report on board who upon completion of HM "A" school turn in his sailor clothes and was issued a Marine uniform and spent his first 7-8 years with the Marines. Believe it or not, that was my first inkling that Navy corpsmen served with the marines.
Seeing Doc play in a pipe band in NLON one year, at a USSVI Anniversary in his kilt and khaki blouse with his dolphins on it was certainly a treat. |
|
| |
|
Master and Commander
Posts: 2254
Location: Foothills of the Ozarks | Subject: RE: Question for the Docs
I was in for almost 9 years; first tour was as a deckape and that's where I qualified in submarines; then I shipped over to be a Corpsman, went to HM A School, then a year in New London (with hopes to get back on the boats when I made HM2) but Viet Nam got me 2 months before I got promoted. Came back to New London in December 1967 after a year in RVN and started my training for being a submariine corpsman. Reported to SSBN 600 Gold in July 1968 right out of SubDoc school (I was already qualified so I didn't have to do BESS again) and made 4 patrols and then got out. Thus I did almost 9 years with one year of shore duty in New London, one year of shore duty in Viet Nam and a combination of almost one year of schools; all the rest was on the boats; if the math doesn't add up then I'll blame it on age and my propensity to remember things that didn't happen.
Edited by Doc Gardner 2009-04-25 3:51 AM
|
|
| |
Question for the Docs
