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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2561
Location: Rapid City, SD | Subject: Help with rank/rate situation.
I received a beautiful 2009 calandar from my (blind) ninety-one-year-old cousin in Hawaii.
These are the facts that I know: He retired from the Navy after a twenty-seven year career. His son told me that he had the highest rank that an enlisted man could attain, so I know that he was some kind of Chief. He was surface Navy. A Skimmer. He served before, during and after WWII
The address label on the envelope that the calendar was in says: Victor L. Redding Cmd Usa Ret. The 's' and the 'a' are not capitalized.
What kind of rank is that? Or did the address labelers make an error?
He is pretty-much blind due to Macular Degeneration, so using the computer is not an option.
I could (and maybe will) call him, but it's a tad expensive to call Hawaii. And, when I've called him in the past, he (because of his 'alone' life) tends to want to talk almost forever.
So, thought I'd ask you guys. Someone on the board will know what these initials mean, I'm sure.
Cora
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Old Salt
Posts: 251
Location: Beavercreek, Oregon | Subject: RE: Help with rank/rate situation.
There is a couple questions I will ask. Do you know what year he retired? Do you have a clue as to what kind of work he did when he was in? What kind of serface craft was he serving on? |
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Old Salt
Posts: 489
Location: San Freakcisco CA area | Subject: RE: Help with rank/rate situation.
I don't know what the abbreviation you cite might mean but I think I can answer the "highest enlisted rank" question -
Technically, the highest rate an enlisted man could hold (at least thru 1945) was Warrant Officer, This was one grade above chief petty officer (permanent appointment). The whole chart of pay grade designations changed after WWII but thru 1945, a (non-commissioned) warrant officer was in "pay period 1" - as were ensigns with less than 5 years service.
Commissioned warrant officers were carried in "pay periods" 2, 3, or 4 according to how many years of creditable record they had. For comparison, lieutenant commanders with less than 23 years service were also "pay period 4."
Chief petty officers (permanent appointment) were in the 1st pay grade while those holding an acting appointment were in 1A pay grade. [Yup, they called 'em "grades" back then!
If you think today's pay accounts are complicated, you ought to look at those in effect in 1940 - the pork chopper would have to take off his wellies in order to add up all of the allowances for special qualifications -- like, for example a sharpshooter got $1/mo extra pay while mail clerks topped the charts at $10 - $30/month and divers $10 - $20/mo.
Qualified submariners got an extra $20 - $30/mo while NQPs assigned to submarines got $5 - $10/mo. Which makes me wonder what was so hazardous about being a mail clerk that entitled them the same extra pay as a qualified submariner, hmm?
Oh, one other tidbit about WWII pay - a Medal of Honor or Navy Cross awardee received $2/mo extra pay.
Through the time when I retired in 78, warrant officers W-1 and W-2 were non-commissioned while W-3 and W-4 were commissioned and Midshippersons "had precedence" between W-2 and W-3 - they were neither commissioned nor non-commissioned - they held an "appointment" signed by the Secretary of the Navy (or actually by a signature machine one of his yeomenettes probably kept in her bottom desk drawer).
By that time, the superchiefs were well onto the scene and the E-8 and E-9 rates existed for Senior Chief and Master Chief. I think I actually saw my first E-8 in late 1964.
So, I guess in either case, one might argue that a non-commissioned warrant officer was the highest possible rate an enlisted man could hold - except, maybe, civilian. 
Edited by SOB490 2008-12-18 4:15 PM
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 2672
Location: New Jersey | Subject: RE: Help with rank/rate situation.
The address label on the envelope that the calendar was in says: VictorL. Redding Cmd Usa Ret. The 's' and the 'a' are not capitalized.
Cmd, as far as I know means Commander....
Usa, means United States of America. Just because the s & a aren't capitalized doesn't make it mean anything other than what USA stands for.
Ret, means retired.
I assume that Victor L. Redding was the individual who sent the note to you, and is not your cousin, since you never mentioned what your cousins name is.
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 561
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My father left the Navy in 1946 as a CRT or Chief Radio Technician. As I understand it the Radio Technician rating worked on the equipmant and also was able to send and receive code. While a Radio Man could only send and receive code. They both had the four lightning bolts as their rating symbol
Perhaps Coras Cmd stands for Chief something. Just a guess.
T.Spoon, DBF |
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 892
Location: Palo Pinto County, Texas | Subject: RE: Help with rank/rate situation.
"Through the time when I retired in 78, warrant officers W-1 and W-2 were non-commissioned while W-3 and W-4 were commissionedand Midshippersons "had precedence" between W-2 and W-3 - they wereneither commissioned nor non-commissioned - they held an "appointment"signed by the Secretary of the Navy (or actually by a signature machine one of his yeomenettes probably kept in her bottom desk drawer)."
Hey SOB, a slight 'correction' to your statement in regards to Warrants/Chief Warrants. During that time frame, a Warrant, W-1, was an NCO. Senior to a master chief & junior to a Midshipman. That was my status in 1967. I have on my wall the certificate from the POTUS, signed by then Chief of Naval personnel & the Secretary of the Navy commissioning me as a CWO2 with date of rank of 30 June 1970. That was about the time that I made Enswine (LDO) and elected to have my permanent grade as CWO vice Senior Chief. That eventually allowed for my early transfer to the Retired list without Fleet Reserve time & without ten years of commisioned service. BTDT & yep Navy Regs always had a confusion factor ~
Edited by Roy Ator 2008-12-20 9:07 AM
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Old Salt
Posts: 402
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Hey Corabelle, first sorry to hear you've had medical trouble. You are in my prayers.
Second the CMD rate.... Bluejacket.com shows the rating CM for Construction Mechanic established in 1958. Under this are the ratings CMA for Construction Mechanic Automotive, CMD for Construction Mechanic Diesal Engine, CMG for Construction Mechanic Gasoline Engine and CMH for Construction Mehcanic Construction. There is also a Rate for Command Master Chief (E-9) but is is abreviated as CMDCM.
Hope it helps some....Steve
Edited by Land Lubber 2008-12-19 2:15 PM
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COMSUBBBS
Posts: 6180
Location: Summerville, SC | Subject: RE: Help with rank/rate situation.
Thanks, Steve.
Cora, these "Construction" ratings were all with the US Navy Seabees. |
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Old Salt
Posts: 489
Location: San Freakcisco CA area | Subject: RE: Help with rank/rate situation.
Roy - can't argue with a BTDT but the commissioned W-2 kinda surprises me. But, then, there was so much going on among the Warrant, LDO, and Superchief structures in that time frame that I shouldn't be surprised.
I went from E-6 to E-6 Fleet Candidate to line O-1E so I never experienced the E-8/9, LDO, or W structure. Fleet Candidates wore midshipperson uniforms (including those damnable blue-striped dixie cups but we retained our E- status and full pay and allowances. That program got dumped in favor of NESEP just before I was commissioned but those of us within 1 year of commissioning were allowed to finish out as FCs instead of having to transfer to NESEP.
Once I accepted that enswine commission, I could never revert to E-6 but that was OK because it was a permanent USN line commission that counted on 20 (or, in my case, 22). I believe the LDOs could revert if they chose to - is that correct? I recall Gordy Benz as a LDO LT was a permanent ETC because he was sweating LCDR and planned to revert and retire if he didn't make it. But he did so all of his fretting was for naught.
Looking back on the late 50s - mid 60s, I'd have to say that the US&N was going thru a lot of gyrations trying to retain senior enlisted expertise in smaller ships that couldn't accommodate Warrants - which led to the LDO, then E-8/9 program. I can remember young ensigns being counselled "be careful about giving crap to your chief - he may become a LTjg and your boss tomorrow ..." I remember Arnie Mazzi jumping from RMC(SS) to LDO LTjg but I don't know whether all chiefs went to LDO jg or just some.
Edited by SOB490 2008-12-20 3:57 PM
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 892
Location: Palo Pinto County, Texas | Subject: RE: Help with rank/rate situation.
If'n you look at any of the pay tables, you'll see WO-1, CWO-2, CWO-3, etc.
I went from E-7 (FTCA) to E-7 (FTC) after three years acting CPO. Then in quick succession, one year each in the following: FTCS(SS) E-8, WO-1, CWO-2, O-1, O-2, & O-3. When I went LDO(t) I had to choose my permanent status; either enlisted or as Chief Warrant. While serving as an LDO I was promoted with my 'year group' to CWO-3. My designator was always as an Ordnance Control type, however I served in other billets. I transfered to the USN retired list under a CWO statute requiring twenty years day for day service. However the transfer was effected in the highest grade served 'for pay purposes' which made me a forever Lieutenant! Thus a total of four years active commissioned service.
Life is good! Wishing you the best for this joyous season. Oh, and Merry Christmas too...
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Great Sage of the Sea
Posts: 892
Location: Palo Pinto County, Texas | Subject: RE: Help with rank/rate situation.
We very well could have taken this to Email, but my thoughts are it might be of interest to others having a curiosity about the 'golden years'. Ah, the great memories of the 'DBF' world. A term that I learned on these BBS postings. Did we really realize just how much we loved that era?
Damned thankful that I didn't have to move into the nuke world! [Propulsion, YES, but we carried the payload!] Being a 'coner' was a livable situation. Bet that will stir some thoughts.
[And way off Corabelle's topic too!]
Edited by Roy Ator 2008-12-20 9:40 PM
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Help with rank/rate situation.
